Dragged into Turbolasers

Episode 72: Chatting with therealbrokenfingers about Space Marines, YouTube, and the Raft of the Medusa

May 05, 2020 Adam Wier, Eric Wier, Gregory Wier
Dragged into Turbolasers
Episode 72: Chatting with therealbrokenfingers about Space Marines, YouTube, and the Raft of the Medusa
Chapters
Dragged into Turbolasers
Episode 72: Chatting with therealbrokenfingers about Space Marines, YouTube, and the Raft of the Medusa
May 05, 2020
Adam Wier, Eric Wier, Gregory Wier

In this episode, we were joined with the talented hobbyist and YouTube creator therealbrokenfingers! The episode begins with us talking with him about his focus on realism and atmosphere when building models and creating dioramas. We discuss his priority to convert his models to be properly scaled, particularly when creating space marines. This leads us to talk about his venture into creating tutorials on YouTube, showcasing his unique take on the miniature hobby. We also have an interesting discussion about art and how it intersects with the hobby, talking at length about Théodore Géricault’s The Raft of the Medusa.


Follow therealbrokenfingers!

And follow his Youtube channel!

Below are some links to things mentioned in the episode:

Tools:

Art:



Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, we were joined with the talented hobbyist and YouTube creator therealbrokenfingers! The episode begins with us talking with him about his focus on realism and atmosphere when building models and creating dioramas. We discuss his priority to convert his models to be properly scaled, particularly when creating space marines. This leads us to talk about his venture into creating tutorials on YouTube, showcasing his unique take on the miniature hobby. We also have an interesting discussion about art and how it intersects with the hobby, talking at length about Théodore Géricault’s The Raft of the Medusa.


Follow therealbrokenfingers!

And follow his Youtube channel!

Below are some links to things mentioned in the episode:

Tools:

Art:



Eric Wier :

Hello everybody and welcome to Dragged into Turbolasers, a Between the Bolter and Me podcast. I'm your host Eric Wier and I'm here tonight with my two brothers Adam Wier.

Adam Wier :

Hey everybody.

Eric Wier :

Greg Wier.

Greg Wier :

Hey everyone.

Eric Wier :

And I'm excited to have our friend Jeremy or better known perhaps, as therealbrokenfingers on here. Who's quite well known for his awesome war torn kind of battle escapes with Titans and true scale Space Marines, but yeah, nice to have you here.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Hi everybody. Nice to be here.

Eric Wier :

Yeah Now it's great. It's great to have you on here at feel we've been following your work for quite a while now marveling about how just your incredible ambition to build loads and loads true scale Space Marines and put them into battle scapes and sort of dioramas that actually look like it's some modern war torn, you know, hellscape, some ravaged town or city in the Middle East that sort of thing and it has just been pretty astounding.

Adam Wier :

Yeah, it says do it sort of instantly gives the viewer something that they can relate to. On like more of a real level. We've seen large buildings, all that stuff. And if those are all like right next to some, like a warlord, warhound Titan or a Space Marines or different tanks and stuff like that. It really helps give like contrast to this other worldly, unknowable thing. And then like kind of your everyday buildings and other bullshit that we kind of ignore.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's it. Yeah, I think having the two together really highlights that then like you said, that's the perfect word for that contrast between the two is what makes the whole thing so much more interesting to look at. And that's, that's really what I'm going for. At the end of the day. I'm putting them up in my house there. I'm looking at them every day. I just want something that looks, looks how I picture the setting in my head. That's just that's just that's how I, when you read a book, you've always sort of put it into a context that your brain understands. And I'm literally just trying to take what's in.

Adam Wier :

Yeah, no, I understand that. And then what's also kind of so cool about a lot of these, like scenes and stuff, like a lot of them are really large and they're just so many interesting little details or like, maybe there's like a little sniper up in the one window, or like some other guys like poke nap behind these different ruins so it's like you kind of always have something to look for.

Greg Wier :

And the little satellite dishes like on the side of the building, it's like so that's adding another bit of believability like those are there such that the Imperial citizens can watch their like Netflix.

Eric Wier :

Their propaganda videos and such.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, that's it. I mean, and it's just, it's fun to add all that stuff. But this, I get to a point where I, I've got the structure of the buildings and I'm like, it just doesn't there's something that's not not real about it. And it's always that there's not if you look at real life, there's wires and cables and all sorts of stuff that's been accumulated over the decades, hanging off all buildings, and adding all of that cool stuff is I really enjoy that. That part.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, because I feel that stuff that just looking in artwork and imagery or reading books or something like that's not stuff that, you know, Games Workshop, like showcases. Like, Oh, this is what the telephone poles look like. And they don't give a shit about that. But by putting those little details in you think about like how this might look in 40k whenever I think yeah, that really adds an element to.

Greg Wier :

It makes the world local lived in. Because I feel one of the things that I like about a good sci fi, a good science fiction setting, is when it looks like it could exist. Not just like, oh, this is a futuristic scene because they're laser guns and robots.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah exactly.

Adam Wier :

Oh and like, like, you look at the little burned out buildings and you can see the little wallpapers and other stuff like that is just really good.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's what the books that I like most about that are in setting the universe are the ones that describe what life is like, you know, like the that's why the Eisenhorn books are really cool. Yeah. You get that sense of what Joe public is going through, or a little bit of that sense of it anyway.

Adam Wier :

You know, a lot more than you normally get.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, even books like Legion, where they're describing, you know, you get a bit more of a sense of the everyday life of that city. I can't remember the city that Legion is set in.

Eric Wier :

I think in general I love Dan Abnett's stuff because I feel he really has, tries to focus on those sorts of things. And it It adds a lot of needed context.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah and it's that's it that's exactly it. And they are the one's I think yeah, that context is what I'm sort of trying to put into my stuff to make.

Eric Wier :

That's the sort of stuff that sticks with you later I mean, another like enemy exploding from a boltgun or whatever like you know, I there's enough of that it's not something that is ever going to really stick out. But when they add some elements about the university structure or something it's like oh, that's interesting. I never really considered that.

Greg Wier :

Can't you relate to the Soul Drinkers librarian, Sarpedon, turning into a big spider-thing?

Eric Wier :

I mean sometimes. Sometimes, but yeah, I think that's really important. Could you speak a little bit about how you got into the hobby and how quickly you were led to creating these scenes and stuff that we've been talking about and kind of injecting sort of believability and realism into the models you build? Was that something that was something you wanted to do quickly? Or was that like, developed over time?

Therealbrokenfingers :

I think I need when I initially started I had an idea for an image that I wanted to to build, but it didn't it wasn't particularly, it was realistic to a degree like I liked the I didn't never like the idea of clean untouched armor. I just saw that as absolutely ridiculous. You know, you're running around in a war zone with based weapons in a brightly colored yellow.

Eric Wier :

Yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

People can shoot you I don't know what space paint is made out of but even like the strongest space paint in the world is not going to stop a bolter round.

Eric Wier :

Yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That was pretty much straightaway but then the more realistic setting that was probably I think the probably this third big model, second or third big model I did I did like a little test piece for the Titan diorama which was Alpha Legion in a in the bombed out very much inspired by military modeling and the Syrian conflict or you know, a more realistic Middle Eastern sort of current believable conflict and I did that and I thought yeah, this is this is me now I this is all I want to do.

Greg Wier :

Had you come from scale modeling. To interject there.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Ah so, when I was a kid, yeah, I used to build you know, model planes and tanks and stuff, but not. I was like 11 or 12, or something, or 10 or 11 when I did that, so nothing good. And then when I was, when I had left university I did, I did, it probably a couple of years where I built a scale model military diorama of Stalingrad.

Eric Wier :

Oh, wow.

Therealbrokenfingers :

it took me years and I had there was there was no planning and it was all of Stalingrad. Obviously, it was like, it was like this. This big. It was not not a huge section, but it was I really liked it. It was really fun to do. But it never never went further than that.

Greg Wier :

Was that like 28 millimeter or did?

Therealbrokenfingers :

130-135 Tamiya?

Eric Wier :

Yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah. And then so I stopped after that, and that would have been 2003. So I did that for two years and then stopped and then came back to Warhammer in 2016, I think of what six, yeah 2016. And then yeah, I guess within 18 months I'd worked out I what I wanted to do. That took about 18 months to work out that I wanted to go for this more realistic setting.

Greg Wier :

Also, had you been into Warhammer when you were younger than?

Therealbrokenfingers :

When I was, I think it was when whenever it came out whenever hero quest came out? Yes. I don't know when that was late 80s the late 80s, early 90s I bought HeroQuest. I had HeroQuest when I was a kid. And then I got advanced HeroQuest. I played those games for a couple of years and then stopped when I got to high school. And then yeah, and then that was it. I never played like space crusade or anything like that. And then I think when was the spice marine Xbox game. Yeah. And I loved that game, I absolutely loved that game and even just just walking around in it and seeing you know the the buildings and the titans and grim stuff and I just thought yeah that's that game was awesome I played that for like a while and then from time to time I would think you know I would look at a wiki or something and read how the Space Marines are put together I was interested in it but I hadn't really done anything with that interest so until 2016 when I went and got a Horus Heresy book bought the first or heresy book and read that and then I read a couple of them and then I was looking around online at images and stuff and yeah picked up a saw so I found in Google images like a some Richard Gray stuff and then I found Migs. his true scale Space Wolves. I just went, yeah, I can do this. And I went and bought some models the next day.

Greg Wier :

That's awesome. Gotta make the Space Marines cool like they are in the novels. You've fairly quickly decided you want to to like make realistic battle scenes and stuff. So along with that was, as soon as you saw like the old Space Marine models Did you automatically like wow, their anatomy here is horrible. Like I need to do something about that if I'm going to make anything seem genuine?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, the true scaling. Oh, that was pretty quick. So I think the second I built a really big space wolf diorama. I think that must have been 2018 or 2017, maybe 2017. It must have been. And I got about halfway through that when they brought up Primaris Marines. I started looking at and I was like, oh God, I've still got another 40 of these dudes to paint. And after that, I haven't painted another little mini mini marine again, because they've really highlighted how wrong they are just proportion wise that from the bottom of the torso down, yeah.

Eric Wier :

So many problems and then particularly even just next to other standard humans and stuff that's still short and just weird looking and they just don't convey the menace and terror the terror and menace that they should.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, will they talk about it in their novels. Quite a lot, the transhuman dread where you know, they wet themselves and it's like what you wouldn't wet, you'd be like, but he's sort of scary because he doesn't have an abdomen.

Adam Wier :

Yeah.

Greg Wier :

True, something truly unhuman.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Its like, ohh my God. What's the Emperor smoking?

Eric Wier :

Yeah, yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, so I realized that pretty quickly that if I especially if I was gonna do is I really love the heresy armor. I think that's just. Mm hmm. That's where it's at. And I really, really enjoy the more brutal sort of style with less ornaments and stuff hanging off it. Yeah bones and this I think I do enjoy to a certain degree but I think that not three mark for armor I really really like the aesthetic of. It to me it was just one of those leaks like what's happening there? And I got it was when I got the Calth box. Yeah, the Betrayal at Calth box and there's that word bearers librarian in power armor and it comes with like his head and then. Oh my god yeah

Eric Wier :

Yep. With like the post that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah. And I'm like, is that is that supposed to go together like that, is that the proprotions?

Eric Wier :

Yeah I remember seeing that. When I first saw it. It's like if that's not a good representation about how something is wrong here, yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I've had people asked me like, just on private message like this on Instagram like, why do you do it? I'm like and I'll send them a photo of that fuck space marine.

Greg Wier :

You can bring up pictures of the, like of the word bears chaplin-ish dude. Yeah, like I remember when I first saw that. It's like, if that's probably the best one of the best representations of how, yeah, your Space Marines.

Eric Wier :

And particularly if like your, if you know you're going into you want to build this big diorama that you're going to put a warhound Titan in there or some tanks or all this stuff. The last thing you want to do is like well, I'm gonna spend like thousands of hours on this but you know, I'm gonna cut some corners and make every, all the little guys on there look ridiculous. Like why would you do that?

Therealbrokenfingers :

And that was it like that was really it. Like the first ones I did. That's why I did that alpha legio diorama and I only put like seven dudes in there. So the I could just use the cataphractii legs, I mean I legs which is really easy. But also not, not sustainable at you know 100 bucks for five. That's not very good.

Adam Wier :

Okay, so I just brought up I brought up on the screen, a picture of the like the cut ups sprues. And it is yeah, it's remarkable it's remarkably bad. It's Oh God,

Greg Wier :

It's laughably bad.

Therealbrokenfingers :

For me it was quite literally life changing.

Eric Wier :

Because I feel yeah people have like good ask us and stuff too. Like why are you spending all this time doing that it's just like, you know, like I had my phase when I was younger like trying to build an army not really caring or thinking about it. But now like I I spend more time on the models. I don't want to build 5000 points or blood angels or something. Like if I'm going to build something I would rather put in the time and really make it look like what I think the universe is and convey the imagery and the feeling that I think it should have.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Absolutely.

Greg Wier :

I like that model like his Plasma Pistol small and neat like all most of the details are cool like his crozius is like one of I feel a better representation of the crozius but like.

Therealbrokenfingers :

The way he's holding it is realistic as well like it.

Eric Wier :

Yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That there's weight to that head. He's, He's cradling it into his body so he can actually hold the thing. But then I get to the legs and it's like, what are you doing guys? Why?

Eric Wier :

Yeah.

Greg Wier :

Well, the two pieces the piece that with the one leg and the cylinder attached to the head, that look ridiculous, but then I think almost what looks even more ridiculous is the the rib cage portion of the armor and then it is just directly attached. So...

Therealbrokenfingers :

Whatever that little thing between these legs.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, whatever that is. It's like a dwarf.

Greg Wier :

But a shitty dwarf, a shitty dwarf, like a dwarf with no notion of what anatomy would look like.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, well that's it. And like, I don't know I don't know There must be a reason there must be like a, maybe there's like a reason that like they somehow found that they couldn't get them to sit on a base property or maybe can you not play games with them properly?

Eric Wier :

Yeah, I don't know. They're You're right. There probably, there had to be some reason and for kind of why they opted for this because like, most of the imagery and artwork did not look like that. You know?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah. So yeah, almost none of it. Almost none of it. Some of the, some of the kids really get it. Right of the same vintage like the forge world kit for the ashen circle. And that's, those models are true scale like they're they're perfectly scaled, and they were done in the same time. You know?

Eric Wier :

Yeah, so it is interesting how some, yeah are better than others but I mean, I guess...

Greg Wier :

That model is actually a squat. We thought the squats were dead, no.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, squats arn't in a lie. They've been here all along. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I mean, so it's, it's great to see like different people and their interpretations of true scaling, space marines and such and it's also cool even for you even though they have released primaris which have kind of been the go to like, this is how I will make it true scale space marine that you don't always just do that. And like if you want this various marks of armor or something like you're not afraid to go in there and do that extra work to convey that, like the ancient armor and things like that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah. Well, I think the the, the, I think the primaris proportions are great. The armor though is distinctive, it's you can always tell that it's of the period. So I really like that. It's more. I like the marks of the armor. It's just the proportions wrong. So I don't want to change what the armor looks like. I think that's what attracts me to that armor. Those models is because the legs are cool, except they're just the proportions are wrong. So just change the proportions. And the Yeah, I like painting the primaris. I think they're really fun to paint. They've got lots of really good surfaces on them that like the shape of the knees and the shape of the shins. And there's a lot of areas where you can really have fun with light and shadow and shading and all of that. But the mark of armor doesn't. It only works in the current period. If you want to try something that 10,000 years ago. It doesn't work.

Eric Wier :

Like you have to really go in and like cut that stuff up and resculpt the, to like actually make the armor like fit. And I mean, that's fine like but I think if you do want it to fit in 30k stuff you need to at least make some significant efforts to change if you really wanted to convey that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I made it I did make an effort to do it for the couple and it was just there was more work you know, cutting that, those armor panels to so I've tried like cutting the shin and then

Adam Wier :

Yeah no, I've I've tried to make primaris Marines into Horus Heresy era armor like I think thus for like I've done like two iron armor Marines based on like primaris and it's just like, well, you'd spend a lot of time cutting away a lot of the detail then you have to resculpt over like all the backs of the armor put in sculpt in new armor plates. Then go shave off the wrist, shave off one of the panels, front armor panels from one of the guys, stick that on there and like so. It's not, it's not very easy to do if you want to have a whole lot of them.

Therealbrokenfingers :

It's not time effective.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, well, I guess one thing that maybe this is a good way to venture into the fact that you've actually recently created a YouTube channel, which I think is like a really great effort and it's sort of a community building effort that you know, you're doing all these things that maybe are a little bit, aren't that common, you know, making all these true scaling all these Marines, making tank, like true scaling tanks, things like this. But and you know, even also like taking scale model painting techniques and adding them. And it's awesome to see that you're actually creating this YouTube channel to kind of convey how you're doing this like you have you've already created some videos on how to truly scale Mark four and Mark three armor and such and I think that's a huge kind of boon to the community. Um, can you talk a little bit about what led you to do that and like how that experience has been so far?

Therealbrokenfingers :

it's been so far it's been great and there's probably two things that led me to it. The first was that I always get asked how I do things you know, what's that? How do you make that color blue? How do you true scale the legs? How do you do anything you know, and I go through and I try and answer the questions and or I try and make a tutorial, pictorial tutorial, but it's it is very tricky to photograph each step and to remember to do everything in order and then describe them. Invariably, when you don't when you describe it, if you miss something or there's always a key thing when you describe something in text format, to someone that you can't convey with text and I think you can play with video and it's that and the second the second big catalyst was I bought the reaver Titan. And I was looking online or a build guide like how do you build this? I knew instructions were going to be shocking.

Eric Wier :

Forge World not havin good instructions?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Well, the new ones I like; the new one, I've got a Leviathan and that's good. But they the others...

Eric Wier :

God.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I couldn't find a build guide, like there was a couple of blogs and people that have kept up with the blog for some of the legs. And in this is it painted? What about, what about the arms? What do I do in the torso? Nothing there for that. So I just thought, Well, I'm going to do it. And I'm going to video and if someone else can use it. Great. So that was the that was the big, second big catalyst. Let's use that Reaver Titan. I just thought yeah, well.

Eric Wier :

That's that's awesome because yes, certainly somebody is, that will be useful to somebody because like, that would certainly have been my first inclination, like well, I spent all this money like I better look around and make sure I'm not bumbling through this and looking for something, particularly if the instructions are often just like a glorified parts list.

Therealbrokenfingers :

It's it's. Yeah, that was a big thing for me like it and being able to see someone doing is very different to seeing that step by step. That unless you're like doing a really really high quality PDF that's shot from millions of different angles, I don't think you can get by it.

Adam Wier :

No, not really. And I feel it's also if you try and put in that level of detail in like written work with photos and stuff like that, I feel will just take an inordinate amount of time like a lot longer than.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, people don't wanna read that, you don't want to write that. And oftentimes, it's like, you just simply want to say, like, position the like leg piston like this such that it fits better and you can cut it, it's so much easier to just show that I can kind of position them to show, okay, this is the, this is the problem, this is what you can do, rather than trying to figure out some way you can write that and some pictures you can take to convey the issue. And so I think that it just helps so much. So much. But yeah, I mean, it's, you've only had the YouTube channel for like a month or two now, right? And you've already have a whole bunch of videos on all sorts of different kind of topics. So I feel that's that's pretty impressive. When you started it, did you kind of have a sense of like, all the things, different things you wanted to do and do you have kind of a sense of where you would like to go with it?

Therealbrokenfingers :

No, I have no plans. I just, there's no plans at all I just video what I'm doing that day.

Adam Wier :

So that I feel that's a good way to do it because I feel YouTube is kind of an, it's an interesting, like way to get your ideas out there and like in terms of like getting people to view your stuff and follow and, and follow it. Oftentimes, I think it's really important to get out a lot of videos. So like the notion of you just kind of, you're already there, essentially doing the work spending your time doing it. And it's like, well, I can just video some of it and then talk through it as I'm doing it. So it's like I feel a good way to kind of have like a really consistent and steady volume of different things. And it's not necessarily really slowing you down or like discouraging you from actually doing what you want to do.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, exactly. And I think It's, it's as soon as if this ever becomes a thing where I feel pressured to hit a deadline or, you know, make a certain amount of money out of it. That's it. That's the beauty of just doing it. I don't want to go out next week I'll be doing this. Maybe I won't. I don't want people to be going oh, what happened to that video on using pigments? Well, I didn't use any pigments this week.

Greg Wier :

So long as you don't start a Patreon account and tell people you're going to do these things, you'll be fine.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I think people Patreon I won't do Patreon because I just get like I said that makes it work for me. I don't want that. I don't want you I don't want to promise people that I'll do something.

Eric Wier :

That I think is the big like, there's certainly nothing wrong with Patreon but for me that would quickly remove it from being a hobby or at least for me at the moment, like I wanted to do what I'm excited for at the time. I guess another thing about doing kind of that freeform way of doing things, it also allows you to like, oh, I have this cellphone, I can take this video, you don't have to like go, I'm going to invest like $1,000 buying all this, this stuff that I don't know if I need or will be helpful, and then realize after the fact, you know what, like, I didn't need that that wasn't useful or like, now I need to spend a couple weeks learning how to do this. Like it allows you to kind of learn as you're doing it and providing content that's useful for people right away and I think that's, that's, that's good.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, hundred percent. I mean, my hobby is not making videos. It's it's building and painting models. And that's like, I literally I focused my time down to those things. And that's my hobby. I don't have other hobbies, you know, I have other things that I do for fun, but they're not my hobby. So my hobbies, those those things, and if I was doing planning videos and editing, that's not for me. So I think this works well. This works for I think people, I like to say just I just like to have a quick tutorial if I want to know how to do something, I just want to see someone actually just do it and I don't care if it's if it's got, you know, fancy fade out or not. Yeah, I just I just read what I just read what it is. I go Oh, that's exactly what I want to see.

Adam Wier :

Yeah. Now you have, you'll have. You already have a wealth of great videos and like when people come on and I asked you like, well, how did you make these buildings or how did you like make these Space marine legs or whatever, instead of trying, feeling like you're obligated to, like, figure out how to write like a lengthy reply. And you can just say like, oh, I have a video about that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's it. That's another huge, but I just go Yeah, I'll send you a DM. Just, yeah, here's the link.

Greg Wier :

So Dave, Dave in the chat wants to know how you feel about the Citadel paint pots.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Oh, yeah. Look, I feel strongly I feel pretty strongly about paint pots. I I don't understand why they have persevered with them, especially when they bring out an air paint line. And then I put them in those fucking pots. Why?!

Eric Wier :

Like wouldn't have that been in a perfect opportunity to like, you know what, like, sure we have these legacy pots, but like, this is a new line. So people right away know that this is a different thing. Yeah. They've certainly changed the Potts model. Multiple times over the years too.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, they have they have and like I was I was trying to like mix and paint just to get like a green and a black together and if I could have just gone Okay, it's four drops of grain and five drops of black. How easy would that be? But now it's like it's four drops of green from Vallejo. And then it's I don't know how much use?

Adam Wier :

Scoopfuls of paint from a brush like...

Therealbrokenfingers :

Now it's on my hand. Oh no, I've knocked the pot over.

Eric Wier :

Or like even even if you're careful like there's still because of how the little lip is. It'll start drip behind it then dry up in, in the like the grooves in the back such that eventually it starts to solidify in the pot then if you try to clean it you get paint everywhere like they're they're not it's just a bad design.

Adam Wier :

I will say there for a while they they moved away from the flip top caps and they just had a screw on cap. And those are by far. They look the same as the like the flip top ones they have now. So these huge openings and as soon as you open them up paint gets in the little, in the screws and then like you literally can't get them out. So it's like you have like, have your vice grips and stuff there, ready to like, okay, when I need to open this, like I've gotten enough calluses and stuff on my hands, we're trying to open this shit. So now I have my strap wrenches and vise grips and stuff. Like I'm ready. I'm ready to paint. Yeah. Yeah,

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's terrible. That's terrible.

Greg Wier :

Well, do you have a paint line that you prefer? Like, do you have you moved away from GW stuff because of that?

Therealbrokenfingers :

No, not really. Not really. I find it most annoying with the airbrush using because I don't mind their airbrush paints. They're okay. Even if it seems like they have good color good coverage. Yeah, and a good variety, but it's just getting them out of the pots box. And then metallics I'm not a fan of I don't use any of them metallics, but the... Yeah, they've got I mean, I'll use a load of their paints probably 90% or more of the paints that I use are GW paints, but I use a bit a bit of a variety like the Vallejo, game, air and color, or a model air sorry, not color. And not really anything else. I just sort of most of the colors I find I can just mix if I if I just make it. So I probably only have maybe 15 colors that I regularly use the rest of the time. It's just sort of make it work.

Eric Wier :

That's a good thing that people should realize. You don't necessarily have to just buy the whole range of everything. I mean, certainly you can get a bunch if it'll make things easier. But ultimately, like you can do a lot of mixing and get the things things that you want without like, oh, is that incubi darkness or this or that, like it ultimately doesn't matter that much.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah. And I think maybe if you were painting all of the armor on like, a whole army and you wanted it to all be the same color, that's where it's...

Eric Wier :

Yes.

Therealbrokenfingers :

This part is my base coat. This is my highlight, but I don't yeah, I mean, I'm doing a lot of Alpha Legion. The plan is to do 100.

Eric Wier :

Good god.

Adam Wier :

You already made a lot, legendary.

Therealbrokenfingers :

You can you can make it work. Yeah, I'm at, once I finish this next batch. I should be at 65. Yeah, 65 I'll be up around there. But um, but you don't need to have some religious recipe that you that you follow. You can, you can just sort of wing it. And the thing that really sells it is faces and bases. So if you've got faces all work, they're all the same sort of tone or they have the same sort of appearance. That'll sell it especially for alpha Legion. Yeah, the bases as long as it's all based, like they're all in the same bedding. And the they've got the same iconography. The rest of it yeah, maybe the colors slightly bluer or slightly greener over here, but you know, maybe it doesn't really and, yeah, I mean, you can just add leather and all that sort of stuff. You can just make it up.

Eric Wier :

What sort of metallics do you use? You suggested that you don't traditionally use like the GW metallics. Do you have a line or something that you do like to use like I admit, like I haven't really used GW ones.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I really like the Mig metallics, I think...

Adam Wier :

To try them like I do, I've used lots of metalics but never them yet.

Therealbrokenfingers :

The MiG is a real couple of really good colors that are like in the Mig, the warhead Blue Metallic or Blue Metallic warhead is really good. And do it to a polished steel one, which is really, okay. A nice spread very easily they go through an airbrush really well. It just and then, you know, they don't get gummed up. They're in like a little dropper bottle, which is really nice.

Adam Wier :

So therefore, yeah, I mean, for me with paints, like I used to paint exclusively with GW paints, and then I stopped painting for like six years. And then eventually when I started painting again, it's like, you know, I want to buy, I want to have my color schemes and stuff to be a little more believable military. So it's like, look around Online while Vallejo makes a lot of really cool like military paint sets and stuff it's like so I'll just buy some of those. And then now I largely use just Vallejo paints.

Eric Wier :

That I think is another cool way of like scale modeling kind of creeping into 40k like now with companies like Ammo of Mig, AK interactive, those things like they have so many neat sets for like, oh, Africa Korp like, like a Russian paint set or this particular like panzer or kind of division, things like that, that are a great way to get like a series of colors that work well together and have some like, way they were actually used. There was probably a reason for those things. And I think that that's nice and it's neat.

Therealbrokenfingers :

So what I really love that those those Mig kits, so what I do is there's a hobby store in Sydney, which now no longer stocks them. For some baffling reason, but they had all like the full range of ammo and ammo, Mig and I would go up there every couple of weeks and just buy one product, like a pigment or a water, something that I hadn't used before. And you know, like, engine grime. It's like, well, what can I use that for? And it just pushes you into weird directions and it was great, as kits are so awesome. You know, there's like a, an engine grime or an interior tank weathering kit from, you know, late 1944, but definitely not early 1944.

Eric Wier :

Yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, that it's, it's awesome. It's so much fun doing that.

Eric Wier :

And another thing that I think is cool about some of that, which wasn't something that I feel GW does a huge amount with is they actually, they tend to like push these ideas of different, like textures, and if it's gloss or matte, and how you can use those things to add, you know add believability texture and interest to a model like not everything has to be like satin or matte and I think that just that that kind of mindset to realize you can control those things and they can help you create a mood I think is important that I don't isn't always conveyed that well from like GW paint line even though they do have some matte sort of stuff or glossy kind of things, but there's not a huge amount of it. Yeah, like you can, you can get a get a lot from that and do a lot of neat things if you kind of take that into consideration.

Therealbrokenfingers :

So I guess their, their range of products that they they're selling paint for are very much more limited than, you know than the breadth of modeling opportunities there are for you know, tanks or warships or submarines or all different areas and vintages, I think, yeah, to be able to go out and just buy a kit from a Mig or from AK or something that is something that's just completely out there that you haven't used before and to just be able to, to experiment with it. It's always it's always going to be fun. That's always a great thing to do.

Eric Wier :

Um, well talking about the, you know, like different paints and things like that. Do you have any particular like hobby tools or paints or something that really stand out that are important for the things you do and we'd recommend other people to try or use?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Ah yeah, I would say it's pretty boring one. But the thing recently that I found I use all the time is just a little I've got like a little grid book like a little notebook with grid on it, so that I can do scale, actual scale planning of buildings or freehand especially if I'm going to be working on this titan and I'm planning on the freehand I've actually I can trace out the size of the panel exactly that I want to do and then I can overlay images over. So I find a grid book for planning is helpful.

Eric Wier :

It's a good idea and I think just the just the general concept actually plan out what you're doing is pretty important. I know you had talked about that in some of your videos one in particular about like, how you go about building your dioramas, like considering like, where you're gonna put this, what size, is pretty important. So I think we I mean, to see kind of how you kind of put that to practice.

Adam Wier :

Because a lot of like particular with your battle scenes with the Titans and stuff like that, like it's more than just the scale of them. Like if the Individual like certain like Windows and other heights and stuff don't really make sense in the context, like then it doesn't necessarily get across that same feeling of like realism and relatability. So like, actually planning all that stuff out I feel has to go a long way in making it actually work.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Absolutely, absolutely. Like it is. And it's also at the end of the day, it is a sculptural, it's a 3d beam, it's going to be sitting in a, you know, in a 3d space, so it needs to from different angles, it needs to look right. So it's alright to have it viewed straight ahead. Yeah, looks good. But if you've done a scale drawing, it's very easy to turn it off. Just go on the page next door and you can do a plan profile picture and go up. That's going to look a bit weird, actually. And it's taken a few seconds as opposed to: Oh, I've just spent six months building this building. Then looking at it from the other angle and you go, ahhh... Which is what I did with that big huge spacehulk diorama. I had no there was no planning involved in that. It was just I've got a, I've got a big case. Okay. So yeah, that first tool would be the book. Or if I had to pick another one, all the usual tools are right next to me, I saw it so you guys bought one of those. They're, they're fantastic. But I've got a, there's two also, I mentioned two more. And there's one that's like a, like a U shaped piece of metal that has a strip of sanding paper between it that's suspended between it and you can pinch it together and bend it so it, sends around the corner.

Eric Wier :

Okay, you showed that in the video. It looked, wonderful.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I don't even know what it's called. So I have a I can ah. I can, I can send you a picture of it and you can share.

Eric Wier :

Yes, I think one of your videos I think at least the one where you talked about, kind of sanding the the legs for maybe your mark four marines. Yeah. And yeah, it looks so nice. Like and I mean, I feel in general like it goes for basically anything but if you have the proper tools to do a particular job, it goes a long way to make the result and like you picture it or wanted to.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Absolutely.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, and then oftentimes, like, you know, spending that like extra $5 to get like that better pin vice or to get that saw is probably worth it when you're working on a model that costs hundreds of dollars. You know, it matters.

Therealbrokenfingers :

The biggest part of me working out that true scaling process was actually working out how I was going to sand that that join smooth. And I found that thing and I was I literally found that tool, tried it out. And I was like, ah, I can do this project now. The one is related to that. So that I've got like a one of those, like a clay shaping tool that you buy from the art supply store and it's got the perfect, like, diameter, quarter round head on it for smoothing wet green stuff around a marine's leg, and it's just like a one shot tool for true scaling a mark four leg. I think it's in the video as well, if you can find one of those.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, now having, I mean, ultimately just having a bunch of those little silicon color shapers, like, you never quite know what you're gonna need, and they're very helpful.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah. Yeah, so the tools, they're my go-tos, huh?

Eric Wier :

Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, I feel that that sanding thing sound like, is pretty intriguing. You know, I've started to use like Tamiya just sells little like sanding sponges that are pretty helpful. But yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

They are great those and the God Hand ones are really good too.

Eric Wier :

I haven't used any of those. Godhand makes really expensive nippers. I made them too.

Adam Wier :

Yeah. I feel in general, like if you can find like a really nice hobby shop that just kind of caters to a large breadth of different things. Like just walking through and looking at the different tools and stuff available. You can often like just see things It's like, you know what, I could use this for such and such and, like, I think I now going into like any hobby shop, it's like a lot more interesting to me now than it had been when I was younger. And it's just because I've been doing things certain ways for a long time and like you kind of you can pretty quickly identify things that don't work that well. And it's you can find things just looking around in unexpected places for potential solutions.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, that's it and I really enjoy it. I love I love going and seeing, you know, oh, how does... what's that tool, you know? Like, there's a there's a really cool, like, like a miter box but for a chopper for a cutter. Yeah, my eye on and it looks super handy. Like it'll cut perfectly with a like a razor blade in this tiny little press thing and it's it's nearly 200 Australian dollars and I'm thinking, well maybe. I don't know what I'd use it for.

Greg Wier :

That's cheap compared to GW prices.

Eric Wier :

Actually towards that end, I think I saw on some of your videos you have like a nice little pipe cutter. Is that correct, that you use? That seems like something that would be really nice, particularly if you're working with like fine scale tubing and such just to make like a consistent scoring to cut them without like crushing stuff.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Brass rod as well like really good for that. And that's an American product. So you guys be able to get it there very easily. K and S they make loads of sort of fine, fine, high quality.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, so that's something that we should look into doing, getting. I think that could be pretty helpful.

Adam Wier :

But we can, at least on the blog when this podcast goes up, we can in the little write-up, we can try and have a little thing talking about some of the different tools and stuff for people to more easily find them.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, I wish I had the name of the weird sanding thing. I'll send a photo of it anyway. Yeah, I can't find that. I can't find any more or the bands for so long. Trying to cobble things together with glue and other sanding papers, things. I don't know how I'm gonna get it.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, okay. Well, I guess we've been talking for a little while. Maybe we could ask a few more questions and then think about wrapping this up? I mean, we've talked about like a lot of like how you know, you've been wanting to like put realism into like your creations and stuff. Do you have any particular sort of inspirations that you look at to kind of do this? Books, movies, things like that?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Um, I really, if I have an idea, it'll really just come to me from, it could come from anywhere. So it's not like an inspiration for a specific piece could be. It'll just be a random idea that I've had and I think ah, that would, that would explain how I picture this part of the of the setting or that that would be cool if I could do something like that. So I had to give an example. So I did a piece last year, which was like an in between two things where I did the interior of the Titan dropship the ford ship, sir. And that came about from I was looking at sort of 16th 17th century Dutch painting, and it was those, I forget the name of it now the areas of light and dark basically using intent, areas have intense light and complete darkness to convey mood and atmosphere and I thought, well, that's awesome. I'd love to be able to experiment with that.

Eric Wier :

Chiaroscuro?

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's it.

Eric Wier :

I mean, I probably pronounced that horribly cuz I'm not, like I don't have a an art background per se, but,

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, I do and I couldn't pronounce it.

Eric Wier :

Okay.

Therealbrokenfingers :

At that I love that idea. So I'll just take things like that and I really love like 18th century sort of romantic big oil paintings, like Théodore Géricault did the big Raft of the Medusa, that very famous painting. Mm hmm. Love stuff like that. And those sort of classical depictions of, of extreme gods and you know, combined with the lighting, I really love that sort of thing. I think it really works for the settomg. 40K, and then if you can have those ideas in certain areas and then then I just go and look at stuff that's happening in the real world. So also they took pictures.

Greg Wier :

So you mentioned the painting there the Raft of the Medusa. So I just read about that. I was reading a book about like lighthouses and the invention of I don't remember it The, the modern like light bulb that was used to make lighthouses like actually be worth a damn. Before there were good lighthouse, there are tons of shipwrecks and stuff. And that particular painting was from some French ship was sailing around Africa, and it was maybe four miles offshore, it hit ground and the captin, they didn't have enough lifeboats and stuff because they maybe they had too much stuff on it. So they built a bunch of like a big makeshift raft. And the captain said that their few lifeboats were going to like tow the the raft to shore. And that failed so then they just let the raft float there for days and like there were like 150 or so people on it and at the end I think like 15 survived. Some resorted to cannibalism and there was a big trial in France.

Therealbrokenfingers :

There's nothing more 40k than that. That's as 40k as it gets. Yeah, 15 people surviving I mean, that's, that's pretty good.

Greg Wier :

Yeah, like 100 and 150 some crammed onto some terrible raft. And then..

Therealbrokenfingers :

It's, it's an amazing painting. It's an absolutely amazing painting. It's Enormous too, it's, it's a whole wall. It's I guess five meters long or something and it's three meters high it's it's incredibly large and I think he was like 27 when he painted it. It may, I mean I've really wasted my life.

Greg Wier :

Around the same time that the art, I think maybe it was Paris, so Fresnel, Augustin Fresnel who's the one who designed the main, the Fresnel lens which is like the good, or the Fresnel bulb, the good bulb for lighthouses, he must have moved to I think it was Paris at the same time that artists moved to Paris. And were both fascinated by that story, where, when the artist, now I can't pronounce name, when he must have presented that at some salon and Paris in like 1819. That same week Fresnel a had a presentation to like the commission of France's lighthouses, and commission his idea for this new light bulb and no one seemed to give a shit about it, but across town everybody was going nuts about this painting.

Eric Wier :

That is also very 40k.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's it. That's exactly it.

Eric Wier :

I guess one thing that sort of speaks to, like talking about some of this art and the scale of it and whatnot and actually I even talked to you about this a little on Instagram, I think. But about how for inspiration, going to art museums and stuff I think is pretty neat. Because you can certainly see lots of, you know, images online of different artwork, but to actually be there and see the size and the mediums, and like materials that artists have used to convey ideas and motivations and concepts, I think is really powerful and is helpful as you're trying to kind of think about how you might want to convey something in your own models and such.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Absolutely. And it's like it's the difference between listening to a CD or listening to if anyone still listens to CDs or listening to listening to your iPod, or no one has iPods anymore. I'm really dating myself. Listening to your phone, and then going and seeing a live band and you really pick up. If you go to an art gallery, you see all the brushstrokes and you get a sense of how far the artists would have had to stand away from this painting, to do the painting and what his world was for such a long time, that's how I look at it anyway especially those massive paintings. So he might only be standing an arm's length away from the painting but it's six meters big so he might be working on a section, you know and not see the rest of the painting for weeks at a time.

Eric Wier :

It's crazy. Even like stuff like Seurat and his like pointillism and such like you know, you can be way back from it and like see this this awesome like image but then when you move up up towards it gets so like abstract and like how, how did they even conceive to do this?

Therealbrokenfingers :

I see, I've seen, I can't remember where we saw them. We did a big tour of Europe years ago, or several and then and I seem to remember someone saying he had a really long stick. And he sort of stood back. I don't know how much truth there is. But because the dots have very small.

Eric Wier :

Yeah, they are super small and like precise. Oh, yeah that. Yeah.

Greg Wier :

So apparently, the the painting the Raft of the Medusa was 16 feet high and 23 feet long.

Therealbrokenfingers :

There you go! It's in the Louvre, isn't it?

Eric Wier :

I think so. Yeah, yeah.

Therealbrokenfingers :

We went we went and saw it. Yeah, it's something to behold. It is just, when you go into the room that it's in. It's, it's breathtaking. You can't help but look at it. It's, it's just so it's really scary. It's a really scary, intimidating painting. It's Yeah, it's something else. So that's stuff like that, I think is always an influence. And if you can sort of replicate that at any level in, you know, with plastic toy soldiers, then yeah, that's cool.

Adam Wier :

I mean, even if it's just looking into getting like different colors and ideas for color palette and stuff like that. I think that can be a kind of a neat and good way to think about stuff like that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

That's it, or even Yeah, the scale of it, the how imposing it is, the ambition ambition of it is, is what I like.

Greg Wier :

I always like to hear when artists are getting inspiration from things other than sci fi, or like Warhammer stuff when they, cuz I feel like that's when you, people come up and create the more interesting pieces of work when they're taking ideas from outside of the hobby, like the general hobbies sphere.

Eric Wier :

Well, it also allows people to put like their own experiences in into it as well. Like everyone comes from a different background, different life experiences and such and the more of that you can pull through it, like it makes the things personal and like makes it sort of your own.

Therealbrokenfingers :

It makes it more tangible, doesn't it? It makes it more like, adds that extra layer of believability, which is like, that's what I like.

Greg Wier :

The Raft of the Medusa that's depicting the scene when the ship that finally came to rescue them, they finally see that so there are there, some of them are waving towards an approaching ship after they were...

Therealbrokenfingers :

I can't remember the name of that ship. There was a story about that ship as well. I think the captain of that ship had something to do with the Bellerophon that Napoleon surrendered on. I seem to remember, the Bellerophon had some of the crew, or the elements of the crew might have been. There was something, there was a connection eetween the two ships, which I found found was interesting. I can't remember what that is.

Eric Wier :

Well, something we will have to look at.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, it's a similar sort of time.

Eric Wier :

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess maybe one last question. Is there anything that in the hobby that like you regret having not done sooner? Like, tools you've used, not starting YouTube sooner, you know, things like that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

I'm really pleased that I found what I wanted to say with it. I'm really pleased that I actually have invested the time that I've invested in it, because I get a lot out of it. As far as things that I wish I'd done sooner. I wish I'd asked more questions of people. Earlier, I wish I'd said: How did you do that? or What should I do now? I wish I'd done more planning early on. Apart from that, no.

Adam Wier :

So I feel that's a good good way to say like, just in terms of like people listening to this and other things like don't be afraid to like reach out to other creators and other hobbyists to, like, ask questions, like, really any question because I think most of the people, if you do reach out and try and talk with them, a lot of them are, they're very willing and excited to talk about all of this stuff.

Eric Wier :

Like we're all pretty passionate about this. That's why we're doing it and investing so much time. Like it's exciting to be able to interact with other people who also share that sort of passion and excitement.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Absolutely, absolutely. And everyone that, that I've spoken to, it's, yeah, they're all on everyone's on the same page. They're all just, we're all just doing the same thing. You know, we're not trying to be better than the next person or, more money or, nothing like that, I, and you know, wherever I can, I'll help out. And as far as I know, everyone's the same. Everyone seems to be that way. Even if you are someone that's got a Patreon and they do it professionally, on top of all this, they'll still just answer your question anyway. They won't say: go check my Patreon. Give me $7 a month. If you've got a question. Just, Just ask.

Eric Wier :

No, yeah, certainly. And particularly things like Instagram, like its an easy way to connect with those, the people on there, you can just send a message like through that. And it's pretty convenient, even if you can't find an email address or something like that.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, yeah. It's so easy. And it's, you can see when they're online, and you can just go, ah, he's there now or she's there now. I'll just, I'll send them a message and just say, hey, how did you, how'd you fix this problem?

Eric Wier :

That's very true. I feel that's just the, a general strength of the community that is just generally been built up around the hobby as a whole, that it's very connected and excited to, you know, work with everybody and see what everybody's doing. Well, I guess yeah, with that, I mean, do you have any last things you would like to say?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, just you know, I would encourage everyone to, just to try something different every time to paint something, do something differently. Have fun with it. Don't get too hung up on making it perfect. Just make it finished. Move on to the next thing, try something new, and have fun with it. You know, just be nice to everyone too.

Eric Wier :

Nah, I think that's certainly good advice, like, just trying new things and ultimately just try to push through it and finish it. I think you'll probably end up with something better than maybe you would initially anticipated. And even if it's not perfect, like, it's still just an opportunity to try something else, and like it'll still probably be enjoyable at the end or help inspire other people.

Adam Wier :

You'll learn something.

Eric Wier :

Mm hmm. Exactly. And yeah, like all those masters, like painting and stuff, it's not like... They spent their lives doing that, painting, learning these techniques and coming up with their own kind of voice and style. You're not gonna become a master at these things, having painted like 3 Space Marines, you know.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, that's it. That's it. And just and if you get it wrong, it doesn't matter. It's just a...

Adam Wier :

Stepping stone.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Experiment with it. Have fun, and do it as much as you can, do it, if you can do it every day. That's great. For what you're doing, it's good for your mental health. It's fun, and it's something that you should just enjoy doing.

Eric Wier :

Yeah. I think that that is great advice. That is great, in particular with like, these difficult times with the stress and anxiety of the pandemic and all those things, to have something that you can enjoy, and kind of relax with and have sort of a creative outlet i think is important.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, absolutely. It's nice to focus on something that isn't, you know, immediately in the real world. Something else.

Greg Wier :

Yeah, I think it's worthwhile to try and make an effort to schedule a little bit of time, every day or a bunch of days a week to do something that is actually, that you find fun and rewarding. Easy to get caught up in all your all your obligations.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Those obligations never go away.

Eric Wier :

It's true. It's true. All right, well, it's been really nice having you. So glad you could come on. And join us to talk with us here. And certainly I would encourage our listeners if you're not already following therealbrokenfingers on Instagram that go do so. And certainly also look at his, look up his YouTube channel, which is the same sort of namesake, because I think there's already even though it's pretty, pretty new, there's lots of exciting videos, with a lot of good information there. That is only going to continue to grow. So certainly look out for that, too.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Thanks, guys. Yeah, that's Yeah.

Eric Wier :

Any last words before we cut this off?

Therealbrokenfingers :

Thank you very much for having me. And thank you to everyone who comments and says nice things and asks questions on Instagram and YouTube and all of that.

Adam Wier :

All right. So everyone, until next time, keep on enjoying the hobby. Try something new, look into, try and find new tools and whatnot get inspired by paintings or whatever. But yeah, get on with it.

Greg Wier :

Be good to one another.

Therealbrokenfingers :

Yeah, exactly.

Adam Wier :

Yeah, until next time, over and out. See you guys, really nice to chat Transcribed by https://otter.ai